If hopping is legal...

UTNL

I really don't want to start a whole thing here, but I have a feeling I'm going to anyway. Just honestly looking for a polite, friendly discussion.

I'm... occasionally annoyed by hoppers. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for and even slightly proud of the people who've been able to figure it out. The scroll wheel on my Glorious Model O has been broken for some time and that's okay because I don't use it for UT but now I'm thinking I'll need a replacement...

But, despite my perceived pride, my controversial statement is this. If we all agree that hopping is a legal and accepted practice, then we must also be okay with:

Spawnkilling
Wallhacking
Backshooting
Camping

And basically anything else that represents a manual manipulation of the game itself through some human means, rather than a straight up software hack, which I think we all agree SHOULD remain illegal. These things are all just ways of playing the game to try and take advantage of the game's intrinsic traits.

So my two questions are:

1) Do we all agree that hopping is okay? (Personally, I'm not totally against it, it's just... occasionally annoying)

2) If the answer to #1 is yes, can we all stop complaining so much about the list I mention above because we've obviously made our decision that these types of play are allowed.

A referendum on this topic might be neat.

Love and appreciate y'all and still grateful that this server is still so active, at ALL times of the day I've been discovering lately lol

player_0

UTNL
Okey... ...but I just don't know why you put wallhacking into the same category? Maybe you use it but someone told you it's allowed?
In my opinion, if someone did a poll here on the forum, the majority would be able to decide. I'm curious myself

Jacey

UTNL then we must also be okay with:

Spawnkilling
Wallhacking
Backshooting
Camping

Its all allowed, depends on the player how to use it/them. Backshooting however has reached another low imo, passing without shooting, turning around and backshoot. Especially some of the players, like a german player Ron whats his name, who complained about backshooting in this forum, has mastered it!
SBT may be a lot of things, he never turns around, just the more pathetic players are skilled in it.

Schizazoid

UTNL Spawnkilling

Is it bad? Yes. Is it annoying and spoils game experience? Yes. Still, it is a part of the game.
Besides, there's a bunch of popular maps that's force you to spawnkill because of how map is designed (ever so popular w00tabulous is prime example of that).

UTNL Backshooting

I don't even know wtf is that even is. I get the feeling that it's one of those things that is made-up by bitchy "pro"-players with inflated ego, heh.
If I understand correctly - it's shooting somebody in the back after passing them by or some shit? Well, it's also a part of the game, no? The whole "shooter" part in FPS stands for shooting.

UTNL Camping

Well, same deal like with spawnkilling and backshooting - it's a part of the game, whether we like it or not. Hell, even 1-on-1 duels of pros have occasional camping in it when they wait for powerup or health to spawn.

UTNL Wallhacking

And that's where you wrong. You (AFAIK) can't wallhack through game tools, so, to use wallhack you'll have to use some third party software that is actively intrudes in the game process, so, it's not part of the game and thus you can't exactly put it in one pot with other things you've mentioned.

As for hoping - I'm kinda conflicted on that, because some people say it's just a part of physics of the game, and some say it's a bug in said physics. If it is a bug - then using it should be forbidden, but there's a problem of enforcing such restrictions and consequences of that enforcement. It's not like it's gonna scare away the average pew-pew pleb away from server, but if all the runners on server that used or using hoping gonna get banned - who's gonna grab the fucking flag?

UTNL

player_0 It's another example of something that the game makes possible. Bouncing is only possible because the game makes it possible. You don't need to do anything to do the game to make it happen, you just have to know how to do it. Same with wallhacking, it's an intrinsic aspect of the game that if you rub the wall, you're technically sort of "half out" of the area anyway.

It's not illegal at all. While spawn killing is generally discouraged, it's not illegal either. None of these things are on this list: https://eatsleeput.com/p/5-game-server-rules

But MAN, people do launch into tirades about backshooting and frankly it's the silliest one to complain about. If I see you heading for my flag, I'm not going to wait until I see your eyes to start defending. Just another part of the way the game is played.

player_0

UTNL
Sorry, I don't know what you mean about this wall? From what you write, it can be concluded that there is an option or bug in the game that allows you to see through walls. As for bouncing, you're right, it's an inherent bug or it was introduced on purpose, cleverly masking it as a bug (why wasn't it fixed in the next updates). But I haven't heard of activating transparent walls with some unusual movement or bind.

Nicefu

Wallhacking is 100% illegal. Although one person constantly uses it... (You all know who 😏)
As for bunhooping, I am personally against it. (these lazy asses don't want to learn to play properly)
The rest can be considered as a part of the game.

I myself can sometimes spam a little. (until my death)
I myself can often backshooting. This is a team game and I don’t see anything bad...

Ooper

Putting bunnyhopping in the same category as wallhacking is a bit over the top, some people seem to think holding down a key and using mouse scroll to jump takes a massive amount of skill 😆 Some can't even do that they just use a macro to do it instead.

If you want to be cancerous do it with a bad connection.

UTNL

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what wallhacking is. I figured it was when you were running forward but just pressing your body up against the wall. Is it something else?

Ooper

UTNL Wallhacking is radar/seeing though walls.

Ann0ying Spawnkilling is the one I hate the most..

good to know 😆

Ann0ying

I'm not aware of wallhacking... I know of maps that have one way see thru secret spots, but I'm guessing it's not it...

Nevertheless those techniques are.. annoying... at best... They make the game fun for those who do it and not for those who suffer with it... Having that said.. everyone can do it....

Spawnkilling is the one I hate the most.. but if others do it.. I do it myself as well... I dont blame the players, but rather the map creator who didn't think about it...

UTNL

Apologies, I misspoke when I said wall hacking. I thought it was the act of just staying close to the wall, I didn't realize there was a way to actually hack the walls to see through them. Yes I would agree that this is bad. 😛

Ooper

There was an interesting bug with slanted surfaces, but with 469 it doesn't happen(or at least not seen it happen as often), CTF-Command-ce or whatever the version was in the instgib and pug servers had a lot of tricks to mess around with, also really annoying if you didn't intent to get launched, extreme cases you can crater but that is normally odd shaped brushes.

Skirmish

in my opinion:
Spawnkilling is ok as long as your team has the flag
Spawnkilling is NOT ok if that's all you do regardless of where the flag is (JHONE keeps spawnkilling even when he has the flag by accident)
Wallhacking? if you change the game code in some way, ofc it's not ok But I don't know how it works so I can't say more
Backshooting on this server is fine, nobody complains about that
Camping is also annoying but, it's not really helping your team, you're kinda usless when you do it, so who cares
But all of this is pointless since eatsleep is a no-rule server and that's why it's so popular. people don't want to be told how to play and sadly most players wanna play like shit because it's easier for them to spawnkill and camp and ignore flags

UTNL

Skirmish Spawnkilling is ok as long as your team has the flag

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, when one of your teammates has the flag, that is the CHOICE time to spawnkill. I only try to do it when we've got the flag in tow, or when the other team's entire strategy requires you to fight back with the same strategy.

You're right about camping too for the most part, but it all depends on the map. In a 9x9 game, there actually COULD be a reason for some people to camp mid field, but even in those cases, people pick the silliest and most useless places to sit.

Jacey

Skirmish Spawnkilling is ok as long as your team has the flag
Spawnkilling is NOT ok if that's all you do regardless of where the flag is

Yea well, that ship has sailed long time ago if that would be a rule, spawnkilling now with a full server, IS the game. Some players just wont play ctf, they're crouching in some corner and shoot. I wonder why they like this server, go play Freestyle or something or uninstall.

UTNL

Jacey

Take Opel for example. You're rushing past one another, I'm full battle in head first but if we cross paths, I may turn around to try and take a shot. Max will grapple like a mf down the hallway and I'm shooting at him the whole while, both while I'm looking at him and when he's gone past. And what's wrong with that? He's on the way to grab the flag, so it's just another mode of defense.

Jacey

UTNL

If you want to play like that, sure its your choice.

Ooper

UTNL It's a very stupid playing style, if you want to defend, defend with the other 5-6 players in the corner, instead of running around the whole match doing nothing useful then wondering why matches are 0-0 after an hour of overtime. I'd rather play joust over opel with how retarded players are on the server.

UTNL

Ooper That's defintely an interesting take. I'm not sure I totally agree. For me, CTF is the primary objective, as it should be for everyone. I think I've made it clear that my primary goal is to grab the flag and move it down the field as much as I possibly can. I find myself getting more assists than caps, which is perfectly alright with me. I just enjoy being on the winning team and try to help out to make that happen.

I'm not interested in sticking myself in the corner and just defending the flag all game, it's the most boring shit ever. Honestly, I don't know how folks like CALIGULA and Gonzales and others can just plant themselves by the flag all game and still have fun, it boggles my mind.

But if I can knock someone down who's obviously rushing towards the flag while I'm on my way to their flag, and taking them down occasionally means shooting them from behind I don't see how that's "stupid".

Frankly my motto is "first to seven caps wins, other than that, stfu and play".

Jacey

Ooper

I didnt know how to put, you just said it right! 😃

Another brainless spawnlamer: Doc_Gonzoctogulahmar. Always hiding and shooting combo's, great way to play ctf!