Can we at least consider a referendum on hopping?

UTNL · 2024-04-23T11:23:05+00:00

I've honestly been holding off posting this for a while, but after the experience I just had, I think it's time. It seems like we're all willing to accept...

Can we at least consider a referendum on hopping?

UTNL

player_0 Bouncing is, as Jerc says, a new stage, a new level of this old, boring game. Without it, the game would have been forgotten by now.

Also, on this point specifically, isn't combogib with grapple enough excitement? I find normal weapons EXCEEDINGLY BORING and would never spend too much time playing, but I happen to think that combo + grapple is the Cadillac of mods in this game, and I think it's fine just the way it is. Again, that's MY opinion. Others are entitled to their own.

player_0

UTNL But that's why we're here. To talk it out. Thanks again for your thoughts.

No problem. I am also a person open to thoughts. I like debates in which everyone can express their opinion, and the best ones are those in which a consensus is reached.

UTNL Also, on this point specifically, isn't combogib with grapple enough excitement?

It's hard to say whether combo+grapple without bouncing would be enough excitement. I have no opinion.
I know that from what I wrote above you could have concluded that I am a supporter of bouncing. I am neither a supporter nor an opponent. I can also play without bouncing, but what could be the consequences?
From the point of view of players who are "addicted" to bouncing, making it illegal may bring unintended consequences to the detriment of the server's popularity, and we don't want that.

It's actually good that you started this thread, maybe we'll learn something more...

Ann0ying

UTNL The game doesn't allow users to bounce by default, you have to go in and change the settings of your controls or of the game itself in order to make it happen.

this is not true. you can bounce without changing the controls. (for bouncing you never change the settings of the game)

It's, however, true that assigning the jump to the scroll wheel of the mouse helps to achieve bouncing. but it's not necessary.

Another thing is that, some players when they see a bouncing opponent, immediately change the way they play in order to neutralize the threat. Most of the times, making it impossible to me to do anything useful with bouncing...

Peter

I'm not a fan of bouncing and never have been. Having someone bouncing lessons the fun for me, and I choose not to as I know it lessons the fun for others and people get upset about it. At the end of the day, I play to chill and have fun and want it to be for others as well. Only exception might be when we are 60 minutes in and it's 0-0. If it was down to me it wouldn't be allowed, but it's not and I accept that.

player_0 As for bouncing itself, I don't think it's a hack, because it wasn't created individually by someone who had cheating in mind.

I agree with this, I don't think it's right to compare it to hacking or aimbotting. I view it more of a glitch, an unintended movement which never got patched out of the game. You can argue glitches shouldn't be abused, but I would also understand the counter argument of it being so well known by now that it's become part of the game. I wish it wasn't though!

Ann0ying Another thing is that, some players when they see a bouncing opponent, immediately change the way they play in order to neutralize the threat. Most of the times, making it impossible to me to do anything useful with bouncing...

This is completely true. I would describe myself as an attacking player, I like to grab the flag. In a non bouncing game I know that if an enemy grabs the flag, I'm likely going to get killed, spawn and get a shot off at the enemy flag carrier. However, if a bouncer grabs the flag it's likely I'm not going to get that chance. This makes me play a bit more defensively, and I'll prioritise killing an Ann0ying over others.

Ann0ying this is not true. you can bounce without changing the controls. (for bouncing you never change the settings of the game)

Yes, but realistically the only way to achieve consistent bounces is through scroll wheel jumping. So if you want to play with this style, changing controls is forced.

To summarise, I don't like bouncing and would prefer if it wasn't part of the game. However, not my choice so I accept it. I'm too old to change my mind. Mac puts it best.

Schizazoid

As others pointed out: bouncing is not hacking, since one don't apply any kind of external manipulation to game files or game executable process.
Is it cheating? Debatable. Since it wasn't patched out even with community patches, and there's no rules prohibiting it on the server - it's not.
It's annoying to deal with, especially when bouncer is covered by anyone with decent enough aim (or aimbot, kek), but it's hardly "chasing people off the server". Only instance I've seen ppl leaving server in large numbers - is when some particular player is playing (you know who).

player_0 may bring unintended consequences to the detriment of the server's popularity, and we don't want that.

It's only partially true. There's no competition for ESU as of now, really: I see like 2 public ctf servers with actual traffic (esu and smoking). So, one either plays here, or go try your luck with pugs (and I sincerely doubt that most players would bother doing that. Or mb it's just me).
And seeing how much traffic goes through smoking server sometimes despite how poorly it runs - I think the only way ESu gonna lost players is by natural causes: player drops the game cuz of life circumstances or death.

I wouldn't mind to see bouncing gone, but at that point there's really no reason in inflating server rules with more instances, especially since every additional rule will require time and effort to enforce and uphold.

jerc

I'm confused how is hitting a button really fast cheating?

Shiceclown

Ahoy
for me this has nothing to do with CTF anymore
it's an old classic game so why go along with all the new shit.
it may be fun for those who do it, but on some maps with good players you have almost no chance of catching the flag bearer.
next year there will be flag beaming, that will be fun
No, I don't need that and it should be abolished.

Greetings from Bavaria

Schizazoid

Well there's this opinion circulating around that bouncing is a bug (or happens because of one).
I don't know if it's the case, but it sure feels like it.
And if you deliberately choose to use a bug, then you are cheating - simple as that.

Ooper

Schizazoid It's a game engine bug, it was not intended like quake although it may have been interesting.

newjack

Meh I don't like it. I don't know it nor do I want to know it, reality is if you're killed during flag pickup on a small / mid small map you almost have no chance of catching the carrier.

I can live with it tho since my focus is playing as a hobby, I'm way more annoyed with spawn camp killers, I'd ban those in an instant if it was up to me.

SoulCollector

Everybody should learn the technique, then. I don't see it going away anytime soon. Some people probably map vote based on known spawn points and how much spawn killing can do. It's sick and getting sicker. We have bigger fish to fry than bouncing. I'd love to see us keep the bouncing and delete the auto balance. Just my idea of more fun.

Schizazoid

Ooper wait, weren't bunnyhoping and all other acceleration techniques of quake based on a bug also?

jerc even IG players dont wanna play IG and all the servers are dead

Heh, funny you said that, cuz 2-3 days ago I saw 4 ig pug servers full with 10/10 players on each server.
Most likely those servers stay empty from time to time is because setting up pug match takes more effort, than just jumping in on public server.

jerc

Its simple this is not IG nobody gives a fuck about IG pug fucking rules go play on a IG server with the rest of the IG playing noobs

jerc

Oh wait you can't because even IG players dont wanna play IG and all the servers are dead.

jerc

That's all good they should stay on their little pug servers run their Pacman patterns shave every corner and blind fire every doorway. Remember these fools are pros cause they won 5 bucks one time or in Holdrs case never. If this server went to IG rules I wouldn't play here and it be full of Assholes like Holdr, Kenwhatever and UnrealAimBots.

Ooper

Bouncing is banned in weapon pugs as well jerc

Jacey

Bouncing should be banned and yes, people are leaving when it happens, regardless of who is bouncing. This thread, and most comments about it and about spawnlaming are already made somewhere in this forum?

I think that, like any other cheat, bouncing should be banned. It's a disavantage to the team that doesnt do it or cant do it. Its more the act of an individual rather than a teamplay. As already has been said: most players dont like it, the really good players are leaving when it happens, even on the same team.

It is allowed because Snowguy could have it banned a long time ago, same as spawnlaming. Players will be doing it because 'its fun'!

Covid_A_Swab

i like bouncing but i cant do it myself, for me its a challenge to hit them, just like i enjoy killing grapples in mid air.
but i don't see the problem also because i rarely see it in a match actually, you can also notice they are preparing for it so you just shoot them before or predict shock combo a small distance past your flag base.
its the same with dropping flag through window at Stalwart. its predictable. spamming some shock balls also helps.

you could also say very good grapple skills are cheating because i noticed some good improvements with grapple give very good advantage. but its not. it feels you can be at multiple place at once sometimes.

Ann0ying

jerc

I'm mostly hearing people who can't bounce complaining . It takes effort and time on empty servers to learn but people who can't wanna act like bouncers installed a hack. The only weps play I've seen lately is on that realm server and once you see some the hammer jumps these guys do bouncing is nothing. Honestly I'm not sure I could stop it even if I wanted to lol. I do feel conflicted about people with infinite scroll wheels though I believe you should have to do some of the work yourself..