Server update ?

snowguy

reg The London 2 server will be a clone of the London 1 server ? (Zero ping…)

I don't plan to put zero ping on the london 2 server but I might eventually change the newnet version that it uses, can you explain why you prefer zero ping?

reg The London 1 server will see its max number of players decrease (9 vs 9 on Joust… dude…)

Joust with 18 players isn't fun IMO either but the benefit is that some will stick around when bigger maps like bleak are voted next. The newer players that enjoy the mayhem of joust type maps on a full server eventually become the future regular players that enjoy the bigger maps.

reg There will be a redirect to the London 2 server when the London 1 is full ?

This has been the plan for a long time but long ago I had to remove the mutator that provides this functionality due to some issues and recreating this functionality in a new mutator has been superseded by other priorities for now. Typically, it never seemed to get players to redirect to other servers that much anyway - they wanted to play on the full server not go to an empty server and wait for others. Also, I have a new server with a faster CPU that I will be moving the London 2 server to at some point. It is probably best to make that transition before redirecting players to a server that will cease to exist in the future.

reg Is it useful to beg for those kind of things, or it’s just a waste of time and we have to accept that most of the time, the London 1 server is simply unplayable ?

It is useful to give your opinions and ideas as it helps prioritize the huge list of things that need doing and there is always the possibility that feedback from players will help persuade future decisions.

reg

snowguy I don't plan to put zero ping on the london 2 server but I might eventually change the newnet version that it uses, can you explain why you prefer zero ping?

Players are used to play with ZeroPing. I think that would be a good idea to set ALL of your servers with the same settings (the setting that works, as known as -> Server London 1)

player_0

snowguy I don't plan to put zero ping on the london 2 server but I might eventually change the newnet version that it uses, can you explain why you prefer zero ping?

I think I know what Reg means. It's hard to explain in general but ill try.
Players who have played thousands of matches on ZP servers are used to certain activities related to movement or just shooting. They already have it in their blood. For them, just aiming at an enemy is an activity that they usually do unconsciously, which gives them increased visual and acoustic vigilance around them. Just start playing on NN servers it's like starting to learn to play again e.g. when to press fire or when to dodge from behind the wall on the dropped enemy flag so that camper Gonzalez can't kill you with one of his thousands of combo shock balls, released and smashed with the same frequency.

PepsiCola

Mayhem mode selected.
Spam artillery ready.
Fire in the hole !

jerc

Don't they have like a Newnet Ultra Deluxe Super Edition now? Whichever I don't end up having to lead my shots by varying degrees I am happy with personally. If I have to think about my shot I already missed lol.

player_0

The problem is that you have to relearn your alredy trained reflexes. The time differences between NN and ZP are hundredths of a second, but still there are differences. With ZP, all operations that are seen by us (the players) are performed on each of our individual devices, so that you killed someone is decided by your computer while you actually killed someone. Besides, ZP is considered a scam by the creators of NN. Suppose you are playing a game and during this time you disconnect the cable from the Internet for a while. Then you see some players as if they are skating in a certain direction until they are stopped or changed direction by some obstacle, e.g. a wall. During this time, you can shoot any of your opponents. When you reconnect to the internet your computer sent a message to the server that you killed them all and in fact those you hit while offline, when you go online they die. 🙂
In the case of NN, each action is taken only by the server. Only here any information must go back, i.e. data that you pressed the fire key towards the opponent is sent to the main server. There, the server reads such information and after analyzing whether this opponent was actually in the way of your shot, decides that you killed him immediately, sending the information back to you.

Ooper

The buggy nature of the grapple puts me off from playing newnet combogib, It didn't use to be laggy with the old(TimTim's) newnet.

Schizazoid

Well, the grapple is still buggy on London 1 with ZP: you spawn and for like 5s grapple won't work no matter what and it seems to get worse with more ppl on-line. I don't remember how it's on london 2.

One thing I've noticed while playing on London 2 couple or so month ago is that there's some strange <1.5-ish seconds delay on a frag reg after succesfull hit: like I shot dude, I landed shot - he stays alive for <1.5s and can shoot me back in that time frame. I didn't demorec it though.

player_0

Schizazoid One thing I've noticed while playing on London 2 couple or so month ago is that there's some strange <1.5-ish seconds delay on a frag reg after succesfull hit: like I shot dude, I landed shot - he stays alive for <1.5s and can shoot me back in that time frame. I didn't demorec it though.

Yes you are right. I had something similar on L2, but I thought it was my brain that was failing, so I didn't write anything about it. I had a situation where there was only me and someone from the opposing team in a room, where at one point we shot each other with primary fire and we died together. It probably wouldn't have stuck in my head if there was someone else in the room. This probably shouldn't happen.

Ooper

The thing with what you are saying is most likely the grapple hitting server side gibs, and or not being able to spawn because there is a gib close to your player blocking it completely, you are likely to see it happening with shockballs quite regularly, this is a reason TimTim's newnet originally removed gibs altogether.

If you modify the grapple to ignore gibs it should help with a lot of the non newnet problems with grapple not spawning. I'm guessing it's possible to check what the grapple has hit and ignore hits on gibs and other actor types, I've not touched collision detection stuff in uscript before so I'm just guessing tbh.

Ooper

Some newnet(and IG+) version have trade kills enabled, so if you hit someone and you die before your shot registers, it still counts instead of being a no reg.

player_0

Ooper
OK.
So I'm curious to ask.
What is the trade kills option for anyway? Is this some way to prevent the server from overloading or maybe there are no major complications related to player lag? My understanding is that this prevents the kills register operation from doing something like going backwards with data, causing some extra delay. In situation when the player who actually fired the first shot on target, but due to some delay by this player, the server received the first information from another player who killed that first gamer. Otherwise, the server would have to wait because in a moment there may be information that the player could not shoot because he was already dead. Did I figure it out right?
I know what I wrote may seem a bit confusing. 🙂

Ooper

From what I understand/remember an example:

Player 1(with 220ms ping) shoots player 2 at 00:30.00, player 2(with 50 ping) also hits player 1 at 00:30.10, player 1 dies first at 00:30.15, without trade kills player 1 who hit player 2 first would not get the kill even though they hit player 2 first, with trade kills player 1 would get the kill as well even though from the server's perspective that player is dead.

zp example:
00:30.00 Player 1 Hits player 2.
00:30.10 Player 2 hits player 1.
00:30.15 Server knows player 2 hit player 1 and player 1 is dead.
00:30.22 Server, player 1 is dead so hit is ignored.

I'm probably wrong though...

There was a fun bug you could do with newnet years ago not sure if it's still possible, if you set your ping really high like 1300ms hit a person twice in combogib they would die, and if they respawned fast enough your second hit would count even though they respawned, they would die again even though they could be on the complete opposite side of the map.

player_0

Ooper
Great, thanks for explaining this
jerc
I'll tell you, not just through something transparent. Through a thin opaque obstacle too.

jerc

If server side gibs are disabled can I still grapple gank unsuspecting players thru the glass?

PepsiCola

jerc grapple gank unsuspecting players thru the glass

Often experienced in 2on2-StalwartLite(CaosGenerator) 🙂

Ooper

You can do a similar thing with Pulse Gun alt fire going through small walls, same as when you drop a flag through a wall/floor, w00tabulousFixed is right on the limit of the flag drop through the wall you have to be quite unlucky for it to happen, that's why you should never be grinding along the backwall when you have the flag to prevent it from happening.

player_0

the same with the flag can be done on the Control map but only in one direction. Apparently the walls were copied but not reversed because in the blue base you can throw the flag through the wall only from the main room to the room with chests, and in the red base it's the other way around.