If hopping is legal...: Page 2

UTNL · 2023-10-24T17:14:44+00:00

I really don't want to start a whole thing here, but I have a feeling I'm going to anyway. Just honestly looking for a polite, friendly discussion. I'm... o...

If hopping is legal...

UTNL

Apologies, I misspoke when I said wall hacking. I thought it was the act of just staying close to the wall, I didn't realize there was a way to actually hack the walls to see through them. Yes I would agree that this is bad. 😛

Ooper

There was an interesting bug with slanted surfaces, but with 469 it doesn't happen(or at least not seen it happen as often), CTF-Command-ce or whatever the version was in the instgib and pug servers had a lot of tricks to mess around with, also really annoying if you didn't intent to get launched, extreme cases you can crater but that is normally odd shaped brushes.

Skirmish

in my opinion:
Spawnkilling is ok as long as your team has the flag
Spawnkilling is NOT ok if that's all you do regardless of where the flag is (JHONE keeps spawnkilling even when he has the flag by accident)
Wallhacking? if you change the game code in some way, ofc it's not ok But I don't know how it works so I can't say more
Backshooting on this server is fine, nobody complains about that
Camping is also annoying but, it's not really helping your team, you're kinda usless when you do it, so who cares
But all of this is pointless since eatsleep is a no-rule server and that's why it's so popular. people don't want to be told how to play and sadly most players wanna play like shit because it's easier for them to spawnkill and camp and ignore flags

UTNL

Skirmish Spawnkilling is ok as long as your team has the flag

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, when one of your teammates has the flag, that is the CHOICE time to spawnkill. I only try to do it when we've got the flag in tow, or when the other team's entire strategy requires you to fight back with the same strategy.

You're right about camping too for the most part, but it all depends on the map. In a 9x9 game, there actually COULD be a reason for some people to camp mid field, but even in those cases, people pick the silliest and most useless places to sit.

Jacey

Skirmish Spawnkilling is ok as long as your team has the flag
Spawnkilling is NOT ok if that's all you do regardless of where the flag is

Yea well, that ship has sailed long time ago if that would be a rule, spawnkilling now with a full server, IS the game. Some players just wont play ctf, they're crouching in some corner and shoot. I wonder why they like this server, go play Freestyle or something or uninstall.

Jacey

UTNL then we must also be okay with:

Spawnkilling
Wallhacking
Backshooting
Camping

Its all allowed, depends on the player how to use it/them. Backshooting however has reached another low imo, passing without shooting, turning around and backshoot. Especially some of the players, like a german player Ron whats his name, who complained about backshooting in this forum, has mastered it!
SBT may be a lot of things, he never turns around, just the more pathetic players are skilled in it.

UTNL

Jacey

Take Opel for example. You're rushing past one another, I'm full battle in head first but if we cross paths, I may turn around to try and take a shot. Max will grapple like a mf down the hallway and I'm shooting at him the whole while, both while I'm looking at him and when he's gone past. And what's wrong with that? He's on the way to grab the flag, so it's just another mode of defense.

Jacey

UTNL

If you want to play like that, sure its your choice.

Ooper

UTNL It's a very stupid playing style, if you want to defend, defend with the other 5-6 players in the corner, instead of running around the whole match doing nothing useful then wondering why matches are 0-0 after an hour of overtime. I'd rather play joust over opel with how retarded players are on the server.

UTNL

Ooper That's defintely an interesting take. I'm not sure I totally agree. For me, CTF is the primary objective, as it should be for everyone. I think I've made it clear that my primary goal is to grab the flag and move it down the field as much as I possibly can. I find myself getting more assists than caps, which is perfectly alright with me. I just enjoy being on the winning team and try to help out to make that happen.

I'm not interested in sticking myself in the corner and just defending the flag all game, it's the most boring shit ever. Honestly, I don't know how folks like CALIGULA and Gonzales and others can just plant themselves by the flag all game and still have fun, it boggles my mind.

But if I can knock someone down who's obviously rushing towards the flag while I'm on my way to their flag, and taking them down occasionally means shooting them from behind I don't see how that's "stupid".

Frankly my motto is "first to seven caps wins, other than that, stfu and play".

Jacey

Ooper

I didnt know how to put, you just said it right! 😃

Another brainless spawnlamer: Doc_Gonzoctogulahmar. Always hiding and shooting combo's, great way to play ctf!

Ann0ying

u guys are hilarious...
So.. If I cross paths with you and pass each other, I should just scream hello and let u go steal my flag?? hahahah

Ooper

Ann0ying It was a given you would be too stupid to get why it's dumb to do it when you are attacking, there is a really obvious reason but sadly you can't make a macro to understand that.

VRNRon

For me, bouncing is part of my gameplay in (Combo-Grapple) since over 10 years already.
It's already a habit that I can hardly get out of. Also I'm always bouncing manually and even fuck up my bounces very often. Never tried any macros but I can imagine it could be possible to bind grapple and jump to a key.. but fuck that tbh, you'd shoot the grapple every single time. I think there is no better way than doing (and controlling) it manually.
I can understand that it might be annoying for some players, but brainless spawnkilling, backshooting, DMing is WAY more annoying than bouncing. I'd even say, it's a completely different league and can't really be compared. And banning it, would just be another "rule", which won't be followed by most players anyways.
It's just bouncing. It's harder to hit shots, shockballs, combos while bouncing and your movement is very predictable, since youre just going in a (almost) straight line, no dodges or moving left-right to avoid shots.
What is needed for spawnkilling? --> Stand in some sneaky place, rightclick, leftclick the shockball, repeat.
I'd rather discuss that or backshooting and DMing.
There is nothing you can do about "banning" bouncing, except change the game code for something. So bouncing will basically always be possible. But you can do something about spawnkilling or DMing or shockball spamming, by changing some server or mod specific settings.
But if we are all honest then we know that nothing will ever change about that.

Schizazoid

UTNL Spawnkilling

Is it bad? Yes. Is it annoying and spoils game experience? Yes. Still, it is a part of the game.
Besides, there's a bunch of popular maps that's force you to spawnkill because of how map is designed (ever so popular w00tabulous is prime example of that).

UTNL Backshooting

I don't even know wtf is that even is. I get the feeling that it's one of those things that is made-up by bitchy "pro"-players with inflated ego, heh.
If I understand correctly - it's shooting somebody in the back after passing them by or some shit? Well, it's also a part of the game, no? The whole "shooter" part in FPS stands for shooting.

UTNL Camping

Well, same deal like with spawnkilling and backshooting - it's a part of the game, whether we like it or not. Hell, even 1-on-1 duels of pros have occasional camping in it when they wait for powerup or health to spawn.

UTNL Wallhacking

And that's where you wrong. You (AFAIK) can't wallhack through game tools, so, to use wallhack you'll have to use some third party software that is actively intrudes in the game process, so, it's not part of the game and thus you can't exactly put it in one pot with other things you've mentioned.

As for hoping - I'm kinda conflicted on that, because some people say it's just a part of physics of the game, and some say it's a bug in said physics. If it is a bug - then using it should be forbidden, but there's a problem of enforcing such restrictions and consequences of that enforcement. It's not like it's gonna scare away the average pew-pew pleb away from server, but if all the runners on server that used or using hoping gonna get banned - who's gonna grab the fucking flag?

UTNL

Schizazoid if all the runners on server that used or using hoping gonna get banned - who's gonna grab the fucking flag?

So true. As it gets more and more popular, it seems like the only people grabbing are those who also hop!

VRNRon

Schizazoid I don't even know wtf is that even is. I get the feeling that it's one of those things that is made-up by bitchy "pro"-players with inflated ego, heh.
If I understand correctly - it's shooting somebody in the back after passing them by or some shit? Well, it's also a part of the game, no? The whole "shooter" part in FPS stands for shooting.

I could make hours-long movies about how players are following and trying to shoot me down after I pass them, in the center of the map, for no reason.
Sure you can see it like its part of the game, so since killing someone is part of the game, then why even bother to go for the flag? Or defend the base? lets just keep shooting around and dont give any fucks about the actual game mode. Or even better, lets just shoot those who are about to respawn since thats what a shooter game is all about

Schizazoid

VRNRon how players are following and trying to shoot me down after I pass them, in the center of the map, for no reason

Defense? You know, part of the ctf-mode.
Well, yeah, if I'm being honest it's not really a defense in most cases on ESU - what random people do on public server is just that - "brownian motion" in the game's environment without that much thought behind it. But that's just how multiplayer works, heh.

VRNRon so since killing someone is part of the game, then why even bother to go for the flag?

Because it's incentivized by game mode? Sure, there's a bunch of ppl who just play point and click (or just click) - but what did you expect from randoms on public?

VRNRon Or defend the base?

Shooting runners wherever they at is a form of defense.
Yes, you kinda make it harder for your own runners to get in/out, but again: public game with randoms and no teamwork.

VRNRon Or even better, lets just shoot those who are about to respawn since thats what a shooter game is all about

Yeah, hyperbolization is a right way to discuss this, heh. You just proving my point on "backshoting" being a made-up bs.

VRNRon dont give any fucks about the actual game mode

Look, I don't like mindless-spam-dming type of matches too, so what? You can't exactly force whats left of ut-playerbase to play in organized way without BS.

Covid_A_Swab

I think they are all fine exept wallhacking.

It gives the gameplay more depth and its part of tactics, also sometimes you dont feel like playing to serious and just enjoy camping.
Unreal Tournament is pretty intense and competitive, if you ban this tactis it becomes to serious and boring.

I think its funny that i already know wich tactics certain players use, for instance Annoying and MadMax. Its almost a meme. Espana just come straight at you like a bot mad_max fly's like a housefly and Annoying is camping as if his life depends on it.

Backshooting very funny and makes the game really teamplay.

I would really not like it if it becomes illegal, if you are really serious just play pug games or switch to Quake.

VRNRon

Schizazoid
I got all respect for the actual defenders, I'd say I'm able to differentiate between legit defenders and those other "defenders".
Generally I think "backshooting" describes many different occusations everyone has their own experience with. Casually killing someone by shooting the back or in many other situations where it's necessary to do, is totally understandable.
But there are also many abusers, not only unexperienced players, that will follow you across the whole map on purpose, when its completely unnecessary.
I wouldn't say backshooting is a made up bs. I actually remember the times where that rule was highly respected and the overall atmosphere was way better, everyone respected each other a little bit more because of that. Reasonless backshooting was seen as some kind of disrespect, it just ruined the fun. Yes its part of the game, but its mostly lame af

Schizazoid

VRNRon I wouldn't say backshooting is a made up bs.

It kinda is. As any artificial rule concerning in-game activity that is natural to the gameplay itself.
I would've understood if this "don't backshoot ppl - you'll get easier time going to the flag" was described as part of strategy, not as a "rule", because that would've actually make sense.
Ah, well, w/e, really no reason to discuss it at this point.

VRNRon Yes its part of the game, but its mostly lame af

One can argue that playing against players with skill lower than yours is "lame af", but I don't see anybody making up rules about that for some reason, heh.

drunken_fool We lost. cause they guy is completely clueless on how to play CTF

Most likely he just plays to frag, team and game-mode be damned.

jerc

Pubic server I got no problems with back shots, spawn killing I'm not a giant fan of but prefer it to spawn protection. Bouncing is legal on the combo server but I wouldn't do it say on UK IG server. Wallhack and you will get caught and banned I'm sure. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with someone using bright skins but that's just me.

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